Reduction of race classes

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Reduction of race classes

Postby Hendrik Pape » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:39 pm

The number of race classes should be reduced. To make our race rules comprehensible, I suggest to devide the classes in two groups: Classes where the human performance predominates and classes where the canine performance is crucial for success. So canicross and bikejöring should be considered as classes depending strongly on human performance and should therefore be run with one dog only. Youth, senior, veteran and gender classes can be applied, but no separate evaluation for RNB, because - as said before - the performance depends mainly on the human athlete.
All the other classes should be considered as dog team classes and should be run with teams of 2, 4, 6 and 8 dogs. In team classes it should not be distinguished between male and female drivers but it should be possible to devide each class between RNB and others. So we would have

1. Canicross Men Senior (19-39)
2. Canicross Women Senior (19-39)
3. Canicross Men Vet (40 and above)
4. Canicross Women Vet (40 and above)
5. Canicross Boys (14-18)
6. Canicross Girls (14-18)

7. Bikejoring Men Senior (19-39)
8. Bikejoring Men Vet (40 and above)
9. Bikejoring Women Senior (19-39)
10. Bikejoring Women Vet (40 and above)

11. Scooter (2 dog)
12. Scooter (2 dog) NB
13. 4-dog class
14. 4-dog class NB
15. 6-dog class
16. 6-dog class NB
17. 8-dog class
18. 8-dog class NB

Let´s keep things simple. We would still have 18 titles at a Dryland WC, I think that´s more than enough.
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Re: Reduction of race classes

Postby Girts.Eldmanis » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:06 pm

My view:
Adult: 19-39
Junior: 14-18
Senior: 40-49 (and each 10 years)

Canicross gets 2 categories:
1) CCM - all*
2) CCW - all*

*Provided that there are 5 Juniors or 5 Seniors, they get an extra medal/diploma and title for their age category.
Example: Senior finishes 7th overal (but there are at least 5 Seniors in total) - gets a diploma for 7th place + becomes Senior champion and diploma for 1st place Senior

Bikejoring:
3) BJM + NB*
4) BJW +NB*

*Provided that there are NB 5 entered, they get an extra medal/diploma and title for their category.
Example: NB finishes 7th overal (but there are at least 5 NB in total) - gets a diploma for 7th place + becomes NB champion and diploma for 1st place Senior.
Same goes for Juniors/Seniors. It sounds like a LOT and complicated, but the results list just has to have criteria to identify:
a) age
b) Open or NB

Scooters
5) SC2 +NB* (+SC1)
*Provided that there are NB 5 entered, they get an extra medal/diploma and title for their category.
Example: NB finishes 7th overal (but there are at least 5 NB in total) - gets a diploma for 7th place + becomes NB champion and diploma for 1st place Senior.
Same goes for Juniors/Seniors. It sounds like a LOT and complicated, but teh results list just has to have ctriteria to identify:
a) age
b) Open or NB

Wheel carts
6) DR4 +NB*
7) DR6 + NB*
8) DR8+ DRU

In total you get 7-8 categories (DR6 or DR8 could be droped). All you have to do is provide detail for normal protocol:
Name, Surname, Categorys, Age, Class (Open or NB).

Then you award 7-8 Categories, and the rest after race (or no, if you like to award them publicly) just later on can receive their extra diploma/medal + they get their CH title. Does not complicate all - you get less categories, faster awards cerimony and NB are not "excluded". Win - Win :)
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Re: Reduction of race classes

Postby Hendrik Pape » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:21 am

Every sub class doubles the number of classes and titles - so If we want to reduce classes, we should start with sub classes dependeing on age, gender or breed (in accordance with Olympic principles).

As mentioned in my first posting, we should distinguish between age, gender and breed only if these issues interfere with performance. We should never divide one race class in human sub classes AND canine sub classes.
So Bikejoring should either be devided in terms of age and gender of the human athletes or in terms of canine breed, but never both. I propose to divide Bikejoring (like Canicross) according to age and gender.

In Europe the 6-og class is a popular class with long tradition. Why should we cancel this class and stick to Scooter 1-dog? If you want to start with one dog, you can enter the canicross or bikejoring class, two dogs have the scooter class, four, six and eight dogs the rig classes.
The team classes (scooter, 4-dog, 6-dog, 8-dog) do not need any age or gender classes because it´s the dog´s performance that counts. (Take a look at 15 year old Lily steward in this years WC 4-dog race. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOGRBK3y ... e=youtu.be She dosen´t need any special awarding)

Keep in mind: We compete in sled dog sports to find out who can drive his dogs in the shortest time from start to finish. If someone can beat the best world´s best competitors we call him World Champion. To be part of this competition should be enugh incentive. Who needs all the sub and sub-sub titles?
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Re: Reduction of race classes

Postby Girts.Eldmanis » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:58 am

Hendrik Pape wrote: Who needs all the sub and sub-sub titles?

Those who think that ECF champs are good... and thats a hefty number of people...

I do understand your model, butas we currently can not organise a seperate championship for Juniors, Seniors, I believe that just handing out diplomas is best solution...
Same is in Rally (cars) - one winner, but there are a lot of sub-classes... and they dont do any harm for overall prestige of the race!
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Re: Reduction of race classes

Postby Belgium President » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:02 pm

Hello,

Did anyone read my proposals recently ?
Not only the make more attractive IFSS WCH, but also the other, performance by age ( original paper) for canni-cross and a new calculation system for the mushers classes.
I do have to take time to translate the whole thing. :)

Short said.
The first are compensations against age as we are to young to give our full capacity and when we get older we loose some capacity each year.
people get some advantage as the are to young or to old against the full power ages between 30 and 35 or 39 depending on discipline. Long or short trails.
That makes only two category's men and woman, en for the juniors there may be something to stimulate the youth.

Second are a better counting of the performance for mushing disciplines where the dog are a great part of the job.
With that count you can compare each class from any breed all over the world with an accuracy between 92 % (almost worst case) an 96 % at his best and maybe a little bit more.
That gives 1 champion and no lesser category's . Woman are benefit whit theyre weight as man can have more power to help. The one compensate the other.

Bikejöring is a special case. The better bike cross people are middle aged people, but with a dog and most of the time a fast track, it could be the youth that has the favor of the situation.

As long that you have a dog to help you, the dog do a lot of difference.
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Re: Reduction of race classes

Postby Belgium President » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:20 pm

Just copy paste my paper as i have the authorization of the author :oops:

This paper is, if it where good for the sleddogsport to reduce classes !

Where smoke is is fire, at least most of the time. And as we may know, there have been some turbulent discussions about reducing the category’s on IFSS WCH's.
Why, I do not know. As it may seems to what I read on the IFSS website, it may be to get it more attractive to outsiders, sponsors and so on. And as a mater of fact, the IFSS is still trying to get some recognition as a Olympic sport.
Questions arise when we get this idea. What with the others ? Do they not have the right to get their WCH anymore ? As it may be reserved only to who has the configuration required to participate. To silly to think about. But, lets be realistic, maybe there are some problems indeed in acceptance as a full and serious sport.
That's why I will go trough the problems to get some ideas and maybe some solutions.

Introduction
If we will be taken as a more serious sport activity, we need to ask our-self, what's wrong with what we have now ?
Maybe there is nothing wrong, and maybe it's just an idea, and people will always look at us as something fun, easy to do as the dogs do all the work. They do not know what happens behind the scenes and what sleddogsport is. If coaching is not a sport, why would it be with sleddogsport ?

I - Section

A. To many category's ?


Maybe, that's a feeling and we do not know if it is true. Fact is that it has become to meet a need. With time it has been overgrown with continuously some new category's because it is fairer. I know now that it has nothing to do with that, as it has only to do with the human been himself. It's not fair is a pseudo reason to get something done. I know because when I come with something really fairer, I get the answer that is has nothing to do with that. And that's just reality.

B. To many champions ?

Maybe, that's also a feeling and we do not know if it is true. Fact is that it brings more competitors together as there is in terms of percentage more chance to get some title. More competitors may be a serious challenge and also a serious competition. Reducing the number of participants will get a WCH to the level of a race around the church as we may say. Only the best are allowed to participate from each country. For the audience and sponsors the number of participants is a reference to something to be taken as serious or only as fun.

C. Olympic dicipline ?

Indeed, what are we talking about if we think as a Olympic discipline. Seriously, I do not think that it is a great idea to get the dry land races on a Olympic level. You will hurt many peoples feelings. Just take in consideration that temperature may be the crucial point. Why will we reduce the dry land WCH race category's as it has nothing to do with Olympic recognition.

D. Bigger category's ?

We may think when reducing the number of category's, that we may get more competitors in our ( as we may think ) serious musher category's. The association with big teams are for the musher himself, many dogs means a great musher, many dogs means whatever you can imagine. As sport to the audience this are the little ones who makes it a sport because both counts for them, human and dog and not only dogs. It will be a wrong idea to think that many dogs makes the sport, it makes it more attractive but make it not a sport. It's not what we are making from it, that it is also the same tho the outside world. It is also true that bigger teams has also an impact on sponsors, the call of adventure seems to do his work. So, both are needed to fill up the whole range, from fun to serious, and from sponsoring to adventure.

E. More country representatives ?

When I think about more racers from each country in a category to compensate the reduction of category's, I have a bad feeling about it.
But, more competitors representing a country will be an extra amount of chances to get the title for that country. Every country does not have that many participants for each category. And as we should know, the WCH are country's that are taking the challenge against each other with competitors that are giving their best for themselves and the country they belongs to. I just mention this because it could be a following on reduction of category's. And sometimes it may be a dangerous to not overthink it before making decisions.

II - Section

A. Solutions

1) Back to the future

a) Why not just go back

I know the time where the classes existed as, 2 and 3 dog teams, 4 and 5 dogs teams, 6 en 7 dog teams and more than … . Of coarse there was also Pulka what does not exist anymore as it has become canni-cross or ski-jöring. Why they changed it, I do not know. Probably it was a more fairer reason. I really do not know. So, their was a scooter class for the 1 and 2 dogs also.
So, if we go just back in time, and are taking 2 and 3 dogs (2 dogs scooter and 3 wheel rigs for 3 dogs), does it seems fair enough as people may think ? 2 classes becomes 1 class.

b) As mentioned earlier in time .

As I have send a proposal to change the counting on races, and hopefully explained clear enough that the dogs are telling us exactly what are the conditions and what they have as performed that race, and that we can compare races against each other all over the world, also different classes can be compared with a exactitude between 92 % and 96 % as 100 does not exist.
It has no effect on the number of classes, that's true, but well on titles awarded. Knowing that something very rare has more value, and knowing that no mather in what class you are running you have a real chance to win the title .

c) Also mentioned earlier in time

Also the canni-cross has been received a proposal, as it can be reduced to two classes. Men and woman, and why not Junior class men / woman also. As it is the age of the competitor that counts, it is fully applicable to reach a reduction of classes. What not means that the participants has to be reduced. Only, they will be less enumerated to a title.
d) Bike-Jöring
I do not have any solution to that, because more apply than just age. You have a mechanical help, a dog and maybe more things that I do not know at the moment. But in my opinion, as people get older they compensate with experience. So; maybe it has not that big impact as we may think. The best cyclo-cross people are middle aged people .

Results and discussion
As this are only my thinking about the subject reducing classes or making the sport more attractive. And so on. I hope this will help people to over-think this subject.

If more explenation or a open discussion are needed, I 'm always prepared to help where I can.
Greetings

Bams Jean,Claude
FBMC President
Bams Jean,Claude
( Belgium )
Belgium President
 
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